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FAQs - Automated Trading

Why do you require a minimum starting trading balance of $2,000 USD?

To put yourself in the running for a major financial shift in your life you need to start with a minimum of $2,000 USD (or equivalent amount of crypto currency). Additionally, if you were to trade with any less it would not produce sufficient profit share to cover the overhead costs to service your account.

What does the Unlisted app do?

The Unlisted app (available on Apple Store and Google Playstore) is simply a way for us to communicate. All the intellectual property that drives the trading is located elsewhere. The trading is performed by your kraken exchange account. You can even delete the Unlisted app from your phone and the service will run perfectly without it.

Is automated trading available in my area?

Automated trading is available to any country or state where kraken.com offers its services. Aside from a hand full of high risk countries (eg Afghanistan) Unlisted's automated trading is available worldwide.

Notice to US Residents (and residents of Ontario Canada): Kraken has discontinued offering short trading to US residents and also residents of Ontario Canada. So these residents cannot make profits when the market drops. However, these trades are the minority of our trades and you do well by waiting in US dollars while the market drops so you can buy again at a lower price.

Notice to residents of Washington and New York USA: Kraken does not offer services in your states, so you will need to wait until Unlisted adds an additional exchange which offers trading in your state, anticipated to happen in late 2023.

Will I have control of my funds?

Yes.

You will retain control of your funds on your own exchange account on Kraken. We want nothing to do with the custody of your funds and the resulting regulation, compliance, and liability associated with that. Using the Kraken API feature you will authorise Unlisted to push trades to your Kraken spot or futures account.

IMPORTANT: You must DEDICATE your kraken.com account to automated trading. Withdrawing funds mid-trade or manually trading in your kraken.com account will jeopardize the automated trading and therefore your membership with Unlisted.

DEPOSITS: Unlisted's automated trading system will not see the funds in your account until the funds are in US dollars (USD). We cannot access other stable coins or crypto currencies, so please ensure your funds are in USD and the funds will be used in the next trade. If your funds are ready and you would like to be added to the existing trade please direct message us in the app and we will evaluate the risk/reward at time of request.

WITHDRAWALS: You should contact the Unlisted support team if you want to make a withdrawals so we can plan and co-ordinate between trades. There are many reasons why you may need to access your funds, many of which are reasonable and ultimately at your entire discretion. We also understand that sometimes emergencies come up and taxes need to be paid. Even so, the clear mission of Unlisted is to work with your starting balance to grow and compound it without disruption (aside from withdrawals for tax payments) for at least 3-4 years. We discourage large, early or regular withdrawals because we're here to help you become truly financially free. Large, early or regular withdrawals may put your membership with Unlisted at risk as we have limited memberships and we reserve the right to prioritize those people who are genuinely dedicated to their long term financial independence.

Automated Trading: Security

We are fanatical about security.

No one person at Unlisted has access to both the public and private API keys for your account, nor are your API key details stored completely in one location. They are encrypted and stored in partial strings in multiple locations.

Automated Trading: Unlisted Share Of Trade Profits, How It's Collected

Automated Payments (Default):

The Unlisted share of trade profits is withdrawn from your trading account automatically.

Facilitating trade automation is a big undertaking with tremendous convenience to our members so it's natural for the payments to Unlisted to be automated as well. This avoids needing a collections team and customers needing to make manual payments.

The Kraken API settings give you the option to grant permission for Unlisted to withdraw funds. You will need to check that option to enable automated trading with Unlisted.

Manual Payment Option:

Regardless of the strong security measures Unlisted uses, we are sensitive to the fact that some customers will not be comfortable activating an API key that gives withdrawal access to their Kraken trading account. We are committed to your peace of mind so we are working towards a solution where the Unlisted share of trade profit is set aside for you to manually transfer to Unlisted on the conclusion of each winning trade. That way the API key will only have rights to trade for you, not to withdraw funds.

Added Cost To Unlisted: This creates no small amount of work for Unlisted to collect and reconcile thousands of payments with obscure addresses. It requires hiring experienced senior staff for collection, reconciliation, and for financial control oversight. This will cost Unlisted several hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to offer this option. It also makes our business larger which requires more management time for ownership, which goes against their life goals. This means ownership will need to hire an experienced executive to oversee the operation. This is a major departure from the business ownership started. Because of the direct labour costs, the system development and maintenance costs, executive oversight costs, and also as an incentive to reduce the number of customers who want this option, Unlisted will charge an additional 5% share of trade profits to enable manual payments for a total of 15%. This is still well below the industry norm of 20% share of trade profits.

Added Exposure To Unlisted Means Added Obligation To You: By not allowing Unlisted to immediately take profits at target like you will, this also exposes Unlisted to rapid shifts in the value of Bitcoin or Ethereum between trade exit and when you send the funds to us, particularly at trade targets where volatility is high. This means that that you will be responsible to make up the difference between value of the crypto asset at time of trade exit vs time of sending to us. You maybe exposed to as high as 20% swings in the value of the payment to Unlisted.

App Access: In order to assist in timely collections of funds and to minimize your exposure to swings in how much you need to pay to Unlisted due to delays in payment, your access to the app will be limited to the information needed in order for you to pay Unlisted. Once you have made the payment your access will be opened again. If there is a repeat history of delayed payments of more than 24 hours your membership maybe cancelled.

Unlisted Fees, How They Are Collected

The Unlisted share of trade profits (or fees) will be set as USDC in your Kraken account. Unlisted will then send you an invoice by email which can be paid to a crypto wallet address using that USDC.

Unlisted Fees, Added Security Measure For Collection

If you have security concerns about sharing an API key that grants withdrawal-privileges to your main Kraken account, we are working towards an alternative option for you with two separate exchange accounts. Under this option,

1) Main Kraken Account: You hold the lion's share of your funds on your Kraken account and the API key you provide will not permit any withdrawals, only trade-permissions.

2) An Additional Entirely Separate Account On Binance: On another exchange (to be determined, most likely Binance), you would have an account to which you provide Unlisted an API key with withdrawal-permissions and on this account you would store a much smaller portion of your funds to cover payments to Unlisted.

We are considering a couple of options for this second account:

a) You store 10% of your funds in BTC or ETH to cover the automated payment to Unlisted at completion of profitable trades. If the next profitable trade is say 45% then you would need 4.5% of your account balance on this exchange account, so 10% is plenty. To avoid this 10% missing out on growth Unlisted maybe able to place long trades and grow this smaller balance account for you as well, we are evaluation that. It adds complexity so it may come a little later, but at first, if security is a concern for you, this is a good insurance policy.

b) Or you store 0% of your funds there normally, but as we approach target we give you a couple of days notice to reduce your Kraken trade size by the estimated fees required and then move those funds to the supplementary exchange to cover the Unlisted fees for that trade.

We absolutely must avoid manual payments of trade fees by customers, it creates too many challenges. Click here to find out why.

Automated Trading: Unlisted Share Of Trade Profits, How It's Collected

The Unlisted share of trade profits is withdrawn from your trading account automatically.

The Kraken API settings give you the option to grant permission for Unlisted to withdraw funds. You will need to check that option to enable automated trading with Unlisted. For customer peace-of-mind we have asked Kraken to give you the ability to set a withdrawal percent limit and withdrawal frequency limit. They have responded explaining that it's a lower priority due to their intensive development schedule, so if they were to do that for us, it's likely a year or two away.

We are happy to execute a signed agreement with you that Unlisted will not withdraw more than the agreed share of profits. If you are interested in a signed agreement, please contact us AFTER you have signed up and BEFORE you have connected your Kraken account to the Unlisted app by API. We are very happy to accomodate and give you the confidence you need to join us on this journey.

Unlisted Fees, Timing Of Collection

The Unlisted share of trade profits (or fees) are calculated and collected at the completion of each trade.

Why not transact at month-end or quarter-end? Each trade ties up 100% of your account balance so transacting at the end of a month or quarter would get messy with adjustments to active trade sizes, it's prudent to avoid that complication. Additionally, crypto is volatile so it's best to wait for the final outcome of a trade before calculating a profit or a loss. Taking a partial profit at the end of a calendar period on such volatile assets could easily create the need for significant credits/refunds/partial profit calculations across periods. That is far more complicated than it needs to be.

We often switch from one trade to the next trade in the same action so transacting on the profit share during that process is the right approach for our style of trading. At the end of the first trade we exit, calculate the profit, withdraw the profit share, and then enter the next trade with the resulting net balance of your account.

Unlisted Fees, How They Are Calculated

Unlisted charges 10% share of net profit.

If there is a total net loss in a billing cycle you will not receive an invoice until we are back into a net profit situation again.

Will Unlisted Offer Scaled Discounts As Balances Grow?

We don't mess around when it comes to doing the right thing by you. Instead of charging the industry norm of 20+%, we are giving you our very best price of 10% without you needing to qualify for it through large trade volume. It's yours immediately because you're part of the family and we want to see you succeed and maximize your growth potential. We expect in return that you will allow your funds to grow rather than take the funds out and continually stunt your ability to realize the potential of this method. This should be considered a LONG TERM wealth growth strategy, not a way to create pocket money for consumerism. Customers who are regularly reducing their trading balances and or taking large amounts out in early stages may lose their membership. We are serious about changing lives, we're not here to feed anyone's appetite for consumerism. Use this opportunity wisely.

Are Unlisted Service Fees Tax Deductible?

Generally speaking fees like those which Unlisted charges reduce the taxable income you will report. As the fee is connected directly with specific transactions, it would typically be treated as part of the cost basis, and therefore, reduce the gain on the transaction.

Unlisted Project does not provide tax, legal or accounting advice. This has been prepared for informational purposes only, and is not intended to provide, and should not be relied on for, tax, legal or accounting advice. You should consult your own tax, legal and accounting advisors before engaging in any transaction or claiming any deduction.

Income Tax Calculation

We recommend using tokentax.co to generate the reporting you need for filing your tax return. Unlisted plans to partner more closely with TokenTax in the coming year.

Sales Tax

Unlisted Project Pty Ltd is an Australian entity and services all non-US residents. It is required by Australian law to charge 10% GST to Australian residents.

Unlisted Project LLC, a Utah entity services US residents. Utah sales tax may also apply to Utah residents.

Robustness Of The Trading Platform

The automated trading will be done by an industry leading trading platform. We give it the direction of the trade and it does the heavy lifting. This is the same system that large scale hedge funds use, its battle tested and ready. You’re in great hands.

FAQs - Other

Do you give signals on alt coins like Litecoin, Ripple, Neo, etc?

Australian and US regulations categorize Bitcoin and Ethereum in a way that allows us to provide our services around those currencies. All other alt coins are viewed differently by the governing bodies and we are excluded from providing trading signals on those coins. This is ideal because Bitcoin and Ethereum both have the longest trading history offering the most stable and suitable conditions for the most robust trading methods.

I just joined and the app says the trade signal is closed. How long do I have to wait for an entry?

It may take several days or weeks for your next trade opportunity, so use that time to educate yourself with our UP TV videos, and follow the chat groups and weekly calls. Our success is based on being very tight and careful with how much we risk. We only enter a trade at strategic locations where a small move against us triggers a clear message to exit the trade. When you enter late you expose yourself to wild swings with no clear exit signals. By being patient and waiting for the next signal you put yourself in the position to succeed.

Quite often the trade invite remains open for some time because the risk to reward ratio is still satisfactory for entering the trade, in that case you can join an existing trade. When we are on automated trading we will add you to the trade automatically.

Which devices is the Unlisted app available on?

iPhone and Android. Not available on iPad.

How do I create an account so I can sign into the app?

Go to the signup page.

How do I cancel?

Disconnect and delete the API keys from your kraken.com account

Is there risk holding funds on an exchange?

There is a remote risk and exchanges can get hacked from time to time but it's just a factor you need to consider when trading crypto. To do business with Unlisted you need to keep your funds on the exchange. We use Kraken which is one of the longest standing exchanges on the planet and has never been hacked. They focus on security before anything else.

Having said that, in recent times people of high net worth have been taking funds out of the traditional banks and putting them onto crypto exchanges. Crypto exchanges don't have the "house of cards" exposure that banks have today to the derivatives markets and crypto exchanges are booming in growth cycles with lots of cash.

Generally speaking, if trading crypto by yourself (and not with Unlisted) you can also store your Bitcoin on hard wallets such as Trezor or Ledger. This moves Bitcoin offline to a USB-like storage device. Don't lose the device though, its like losing a bar of gold. If it's lost, it's lost.

What if I'm aged 65+?

Unfortunately individuals aged 65+ cannot signup with Unlisted online. Please contact us with any questions.

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